Sunday, September 27, 2009

J.F. Mania Continued


In the spirit of jumping aboard the J.F. Cutter bandwagon, I thought I would post a flask (what a surprise, I know). You can sure see why J.F. fifths and flasks are so popular. Great heritage, color, crudity, and enough to go around, where almost anyone can have not only an example or two, but a NICE example or two. That cannot be said for many other early whiskies. Here is a very well struck TF-9 pint flask. There are likely about 40+ of these known total, in various condition. They range from a dark amber to old amber, all the way to yellow with a tinge of green. It is difficult to get one with color, character, and strike. The values on these keep climbing, and today will set you back between $1200 and $3000. You sure do not see them at shows, or available anywhere else for that matter. I have actually seen more Crown shoulder flasks available in the past year than J. F.s. Not sure why. Also, when was the last mint example dug? Maybe I am out of the loop, but very few early flasks seem to be dug anymore.
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11 comments:

  1. Golden PlantationSeptember 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM

    Holy smokes, what a gorgeous Cutter flask, just an incredible example. These things are sure territorial in nature when found. Un-like the 5ths their generally only known to be found in just very few areas of California & Nevada. Would anyone know or speculate on a
    approximatetime time use period of this bottle???
    www.oldwestbottles.com

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  2. J.F. Cutter ExtraSeptember 27, 2009 at 6:26 PM

    M.E.,

    You are correct! I've also seen more Shoulder Crown flasks for sale in the last two years (4 to be exact) and fewer Star Shield Flasks (2 of them). I only saw one of them sell for sure however (on ebay). The others were simply "listed for sale," so I'm not sure if they ever changed hands or not.

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  3. AnonymousSeptember 28, 2009 at 1:21 PM

    I think you hit the nail on the head ! Most of the globs are so rare and costly that there just arent enough to go around, unless of course you happen to have a very large bank acct. you can occassionally pry a nice one loose. With Cutters, everyone can participate in one form or another, plus the Cutter history is fascinating in itself.
    As for age on the JF flasks, going from my digs, I would lean towards the mid part of the JF run... (1875-78). I think the JF, Martin crwn-shldr, and Jesse flasks area all contempories.

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  4. Mike DolciniSeptember 29, 2009 at 8:40 AM

    I concur, AP. The flasks are a few years later than sometimes assumed. Same goes for the much respected "Genuine" flask. My limited experience with them says early 1880s, not the previously suggested "early 1870s".

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  5. Golden PlantationSeptember 29, 2009 at 11:17 AM

    I believe the early Western flask in most cases were in use during the same time frame as their matching counterpart 5ths. The Grange 5ths from my experience in digging seem to date 1878-80 so it's likely the flask is of the same era. I've experienced on digs; Grange, Moore, Brickwedel, Castle, Phoenix, Spruance, Cutter, Kane O' Leary & Millers in close proximity and in some cases together with both the 5th and flask. Years ago I had a Star Shield flask that was such a dark chocolate amber that would barely pass light. I would imagine that is a rare color for this bottle???
    www.oldwestbottles.com

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  6. AnonymousSeptember 29, 2009 at 2:49 PM

    I agree, the flasks were used during the same time frame as their fifth counterpart, except in most cases not for the entire run of the brand or agent. For example the Miller's flasks seem to run longer than the fifth and more towards the beginning of the run, and the fifth appears more towards the end of the run. The Castle flask is more towards the beginning of the run as well. The Jesse flasks surely only appear during a short part of the Moore Hunt at the hlem of the brand's run in the West. Some of the 80s flask/fifth pairs seem to run more closely in length of amount of time together, eg: Kane O'Leary, Brickwedel, Taussig, Gruenberg, etc..
    AP

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  7. WesternglassaddictSeptember 29, 2009 at 5:03 PM

    Interesting...so the flasks that appeared early in the run of their fifth counterparts come in a much more varied range of colors. Example Castle flask:early in the fifths run-pretty colors. Grange flask, early in the run of fifths, pretty colors, millers:early and pretty compared to light amber,or golden fifth counterpart. Jesse Moore flask, later, and more consistent in color, Brickwedel, Gruenberg,Phoenix, during run of fifths, more consistent (mostly with RARE exceptions) color. Where is the AAA fifth? or the Gold Dust flask? I say there is a good chance they are out there! M.E.

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  8. Golden PlantationSeptember 29, 2009 at 9:34 PM

    Ahhhhh but there is a AAA 5th!

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  9. WesternglassaddictSeptember 30, 2009 at 6:02 PM

    Of course there is...

    ReplyDelete
  10. Golden PlantationOctober 1, 2009 at 6:46 PM

    AAA
    OLD VALLEY WHISKEY
    LIVINGSTON & CO.
    220 & 222 CALIFORNIA ST.
    SAN FRANCISCO
    SOLE AGENTS FOR THE PACIFIC COAST

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  11. J.F. Cutter ExtraOctober 1, 2009 at 10:30 PM

    What!?!?! I've often dreamed-up the idea of a AAA Fifth....Is there any proof via picture, broken pieces, etc.??

    G.P. Where did you find out the above info?

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