It seems like few collectors are in the mood to post anything lately, but myself. Not sure why, maybe folks are "going underground" for some reason. I for one like to keep things fresh, and since I am certainly no scholar on the colorful history on most whiskey bottles, I can at least contribute by posting some colorful bottles! The recent "bargain" in the latest American Bottle Auctions with the sale of an undamaged "Two Name Bear" has me a bit puzzled. Perhaps the bottle lacked any degree of character, however there have been no examples sell in the last decade at auction without some "issue" or having been heavily cleaned. This top 25 fifth just never got a push or heavy competition in this case, and for a near mint specimen, it was a great buy in my humble opinion. Maybe someone who handled it could shed some light on the overall quality of that particular example. I know the strike was not super crisp, so perhaps that was the reason. My understanding is that there are about 14 examples in collections. Here is a strongly embossed "F & B" with a bear with clearly defined and perfectly combed hair. Ok...I will quit posting for awhile, and let someone else give it a shot.
I was puzzled also about the price of the "two name bear". It has a very strongly embossed bear and is a great bottle. Regarding the "two name bears", apparently there was a mold flaw in the back of the bottle. It is evident in the "Tommy Walker" example that was dug in Nevada City. and it also appears on the recent auction bottle. The one from the auction has several "rivet marks" showing repair on the back and shoulder, but just the round rivet marks. It is puzzling that the mold flaw on the "Walker" bottle was not fixed with one of the "rivets" in the auction bottle. I believe that the back was then patched with a strip that was very neatly placed and hardly shows on examples of the two name bear. By the time the mold was reworked for FENKHAUSEN & CO bottle, the repair strip apparently was rather worn and shows on these bottles. Comparing these bottles, all three of the sited examples appear to be from the same mold. The embossing is identical. Apparently, these bottles were all made from the same mold.
ReplyDeleteCool bottle buddy. I think the blogs (and hobby) are dying due to a few bad apples who can't keep their mouth or minds shut. Its sad and I think it is going to hurt the hobby in the long run with less new collectors entering the hobby. Oh well, its fine with me, cheaper bottles will be the result. I predict a gradual crash in the western bottle market, although the eastern/western appeal of bitters will fare better. I have more than enough money to buy just about any bottle I want, but refuse to do so unless I spot a unique color/crudity combo that just knocks my socks off and gives me an instant boner. Don't believe the auction house hype and NEVER buy a western bottle for investment. Buy the bottle because it is a mint example that hasn't passed through the hands of a mild crook who has polished, buffed, or repaired it. Buy the bottle because you enjoy the aesthetically pleasing aurora it brings to your home. Buy the bottle because you saw it come out of the ground. Buy the bottle and remember why you're buying it. DONT buy with the bottle with hopes that it will appreciate................ I'm not going to give you $10000 for your bottle JUST because you paid $3000 for it 15 years ago. ROI is not guaranteed in this game. Bottles are an expense, PERIOD. A bottle is only worth as much as the number of collectors who want it. Remember that and be ware of the unscrupulous, dishonest, professional con-artists who saturate this world we play in.
ReplyDeleteBoy does that poor bastard live a poor miserable life or what? Fortunitly the majority of bottle collectors don't share such a demented negative view.
ReplyDeletePray tell, who are all these Anonymous Bozo's? I'm getting confused on which Anonymous Bozo is talking Sh_t about which other Anonymous Bozo's? The Blogs are crawling with em, Lord O Mighty! Lord O Mighty! Sack Up Anonymous Bozo's. Dr.Barnes
ReplyDeleteMaybe one should do away with Anonymous comments ? / !!! ==== G. K. Bryant / Texas , aka, fleabayer, dabitterinn. ...... HAPPY TRAILS ..........
ReplyDeleteIf you really believe in what you are willing to speak in public,stand up and sign your name...robgarb.
ReplyDeleteMany good people in this hobby. On a similar note - is it true that the AAA, Bird Cutter, and Old Judge from the last auction all have buffed chips ??? Have the winners examined the bottles____ ?
ReplyDeleteDon't stop posting M.E.!
ReplyDeleteWe love seeing these top shelf examples you keep pulling out of the hat.
I have been slow to post lately, been digging quite a bit. Not much finding, but the ground is as soft as it ever is in the desert, and the snow is coming out of the mtns. Maybe I'll have something to brag about at the Reno show.
I've got a few interesting items to post (interesting to me)!!! First things first. Digging comes first!!
Those of you that have something to share... we really do appreciate the posts.
Truly great bottle, M.E.!
ReplyDeleteThe 2-Name Bear from the auction doesn't hold a candle next to an example like this!
I appreciate all the articles that are posted on here by all you guys who know something about the bottles that we love to collect. I love the bottles but dont have the time to do all the research that goes into a good article say like the two name bear that M. E posted..... so just ignore all the dumb ass anonymizers and enjoy the pieces of info articles that the really professional collectors post here and on the bitters blog....Andy, courtland/ fleabay user djsoldstuf...california
ReplyDeleteME
ReplyDeletePlease continue the posts of quality bottles. They are beautiful.
Dennis
Rule number 434: Bottle Collecting interest mirrors the availability of Bottle Digging sites. Most collectors were hooked on diggin first. Something to think about.
ReplyDeletejust a sudden thought here prodded by the last post...Sure a lot of started by diggin first, only because in the mid sixties there were lots of dumps discovered, and permission to dig on private property wasnt as hard to get as now...and who wouldnt like to dig a green gloppy top evans o-brien or phoenix bourbon. those types of bottles are hardly ever dug anymore, or at least not by the great majority of present day bottle collectors, and we all dont have thousands of dollars to shell out on them either, even if the collectors that now have them would be willing to part with them anyhoo. So now we get them off e- bay or American bottle auctions or at some of the shows, if you can get in early enough to wave big bucks at the sellers. Not particular angry or disgusted, because I have a few of the thousand dollar or more bottles, but the aforementioned facts are what has rapidly been changing our hobby for the last ten years or so. Thats one reason I like these blogs and the info that is here.....Andy/djsoldstuf...courtland, ca.
ReplyDeleteIf you analize this elite level of collecting it seems to be that what is most highly prized or sought after is an object that varies from the norm, is rare, and that few others own.This rarity includes not just the number of specimens known but other not usual characteristics, color,whittle crudity or any other variation that is determined to be beautiful.As a consequence many agree to pay a high price for this. There are many other beautiful not expensive bottles availiable .This fact has already been noted on other bottle sites, The interesting question is what is the ultimate purpose or meaning to collecting as many bottles as ones circumstances,capabilities and time allows?...robgarb
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts robgarb...I am just gonna give em to my kids when I croak anyways, as a guy on e-bay says keep your perspective your only a custodian for as long as you has em.....andy/djsoldstuf
ReplyDeletethe auction price does seem a little soft for the two name bear,although i did not see it in person .IN Whiskey bottles of the old west by John Thomas it is item # 4 a 1977 price of $600.00 and a 2002 price of $9000.00,so at $4800.00 plus 12% buyers premium and also 8.75%calif sales tax if buying in calif,would put the cost to buy the bear at about $5800.00.So i guess what goes must come down a little in the stock market of antique whisky bottles.
ReplyDeleteI saw the two name bear and I would call it a dog, not a bear, as far as examples go.... Hence, the low hammer price.
ReplyDeleteAFIAC, NO twice named Spears is a dog. Some are better'n, others and ME's example is one of best I have seen in some years. He appreciates high quality glass and it shows in the photos he graces this site with. Please don't stop sharing your treasures with us, ME. Don't let a few sour apples spoil the pie, as it were.
ReplyDeleteMike Dolcini
Sacramento