The first one is seen on a pure BLACK GLASS 6th likely dating to the mid 1860s and the second one is similar to the Wideman/Chappaz star and seen here on a strawberry-puce 6th dating to the late 1860s.
How common are these stars ? How many black glass 6ths/5ths have been observed ? Any input ???
Warren ??
That's pretty difficult to answer with any kind of certainty. I've found no written evidence that speaks of these star designs from the Pacific Glass Works. My opinion is that most likely these base embossed variations of a star style of insignia is most likely from the glassworks while run by the first lessee's from June of 1863 through June of 1866. I am not so certain that the second lessee of the glassworks would have continued to engrave such a design upon the moulds as the company was now somewhat separated from the glassworks daily operations.
ReplyDeleteThis is all theory, but remember that there is an example that is embossed both with Pacific Glass Works AND a star. We can safely say that between 1863-1876 PGW used a star to identify their products. I just don't see it possible that both PGW and SFGW used stars ! One theory is that after SFGW opened in 1865, PGW decided to start using the star to differentiate their products from SFGW.
ReplyDeleteThere's no doubting that a star shaped design was used and from the Pacific Glass Works. I have seen two different styles of a star style insignia with PGW's name along with it. The first 3 years of the glassworks operation were tied to the Pacific Glass Company. From July 1866 through December 1874, the glassworks were leased by and eventually sold to a private owner.
ReplyDeleteIt's been my experience that bottles with the star and raised dot in the center generally come out of circa 1863-1866 layers only. Whiskey cylinders are only a few of the bottles that we've noted of this era to have this. We've recovered un-embossed: Blacks, Pickles, Square bitters & Spice bottles with a very similar star and raised dot from this same 63-66 era.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting note is that the "Wideman & Chappaz" partnership lasted for a short 8 months in the later part of 1864 only. This is what I believe to be the earliest known embossed Western bottle to carry this trade mark.
Yo Andrew, how about posting a full picture of the Strawberry Puce 6th with some light behind it, I sure would like to see the color. DB /Rick
ReplyDeleteHey Warren, Don't forget that there is a early 6th embossed on the bottom only with no star but with the vent dot that reads Pacific Glass Works SF. I have a broken dark green one and it was dug with 3 pontiled london jockeys. Thanks Mike
ReplyDeleteHey Doc Barnes,the strawberry 6th was busted !!! I'll try to get some pics of it anyways, stay tuned. GP, have you every tried to count the differnt stars ? So far I'm up to ten 1863 to 1880 stars.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, we eventually need to round up all of our unembossed "western" cylinders and document all of the star variations and sub-variations. Maybe it won't be enough to complie and publish a full-fledged book, but perhaps a pamphlet or something more definitive for the blog. I've been noticing more and more variations between the dot-based sixth examples I have and their associated base and/or base-rim characteristics. It seems all of the dot-based examples I have (sixths) are all 3-piece moulds. Can the same be said for the earlier fifths (with embossed base markings) that you have?
ReplyDeleteFellas~
What about a group-effort Auburn Display of one of the following:
A. Tea Kettle's
B. Circle Cutters
C. Horses
D. Non-Crown J.H. Cutters
E. Jesse Moore's
F. Unembossed Colored Cylinders
I say Non-Crowns or colored cylinders !
ReplyDeleteI dug a applied top cylinder sixth a while back that had a strange design on the base. It was sort of a "bowtie", kind of like two triangles with points facing. Maybe not Western, but it was sure dug in Sactown.
ReplyDeleteYeah, we dug a broken one of those 'bowtie' fifths in a mid 80s layer last year. I'd never seen one before, but Doc Privy assured me he's found a few over the years and feels they're western. What color was it ?
ReplyDeleteLight amber, but nothing unusual or particularly crude. It was given to a young collector who showed interest in it. Not the first I've dug, but at my age, who can remember all of 'em? A half century of bottle diggin' has left me somewhat jaded, so not much excites me like it once did. Don't get me wrong, digging remains a huge part of my life; it's the search that gets me going, not only the end result of the dig.
ReplyDelete