Here is proof to when Francis & Patrick Cassin had their embossed whiskey bottles in the market. The advertisement on left appeared September 2, 1874, the other on March 14, 1874.
I have seen those ads before, Warren. "Beautifully figured and painted bottles"? "Glass labeled bottles"? Indicators of what, exactly. Were the bottle painted? Were the rear labels glassed over? Probably not, but the ads are intriguing.
You just have to wonder where in the heck are all these 1000's of bottles are, these and every other brand out there from the old days. Some of these bottles have less than 10 known? Is there a Giant outhouse pit of them, were they all recycled, are they in they the Anonymous guy's garage? I heard that in some of the old Nevada towns they were finding Boca Bob beers with whiskey labels on them? There must be a giant dump somewhere in the Bay Area holding the hoard. I think I am starting to amp out for Auburn. I am the botlmole Please stop by and put a face to your email handle both on the blogs and Ebay. Upper building middle row next to Richard S. ohhh and bring $$ Do Your Part to keep the Old Mole off the Streets. Dr.Barnes.......A Shamless Plug
Nice find Warren. These ads are the same as the one that was reprinted in an old bottle club newsletter from years past. We didn't have a date to go with the ad until now. Older than I had expected. Very cool! Two of these bottles were found in Eastern Calif. a number of years ago by a So. Cal digger. One had the remains of the label, but I think it was to far gone to enjoy the "lovely designs". soleagent
This ad is NOT for the embossed bottles ! These were label-only bottles shipped full directly from Ky. Cassin had a problem with "imitators" selling Golden Plantation Whiskey. There is another ad (unfortunately of too poor quality to scan clearly). I'll transcribe it below for everyone to read. ersThe ad appears in the June 1874 Wine Dealers Gazette(transcribed here below in verbatim):
$100 "It having come to our knowledge that certain unscrupulous parties have filled or glass labeled bottles with a cheap compound whiskey that represents to be our "O.K.GOLDEN PLANTATION WHISKY, We offer the above reward for information that will lead to the conviction of all such parties; at the same time,cautioning the public against the imposition. All of our bottles have our label, F & PJ Cassin, across the mouth, without which none are genuine."
In my opinion the above demonstated a problem with the "beautiful glass labeled bottles that were beautifully figured and painted". This is what prompted Cassin to THEN order the heavily embossed bottles.
Seems like they suffered a case of "what goes around comes around". In Burke vs Cassin 1867, F & PJ were sued in court for trying to imitate Udolpho Wolfes Schnapps. Cassin started selling labeled bottles of "Von Wolfes" Schnapps with bottles and labels similar to Wolfe's.This shortly caught the attention of the Udolpho Wolfe Co. Cassin lost the court case and were ordered to cease immediately selling the imitation product that was too similar in name and label design.
MAny whiskies started out as label-only bottles. Kind of a trial run, or sometimes while waiting for embossed bottles,if you will.
I have personally dug broken or whole, Cassin's Golden Plantation 1/5's on over 20 different occasions at 20 different properties. I can tell you, that in every instance, the layer was early 1880's. There is also a mine site in south eastern California where a digger dug a cellar hole with 3 intact Cassins and over 25 broken. This mine wasnt even dug yet in 1874.
The three C & I moulds (Cassin, S.H.M.and McKennas) seemed to have made their way to San Francisco about 1879 or 80,a yr or two after C&I ceased business in 1878 in Pitts, PA.
Clarification on the C&I moulds....... It is my opinion that these three moulds were originally "blanks" ( "slicks" in bottle collector jargon)upon arrival to S.F. in 1878 or 79 . Wilmerding bought two of the blank moulds, and Cassin bought the other. Perhaps an ex- C& I glassblower who had relocated to S.F. looking for work, shopped these blank moulds around at a discounted rate in the whiskey wholesaler district (he could've showed them to almost every liquor company in SF by walking only about a 5 block area). He then cut the embossing in, per design of Wilmerding (all he had to do on those was copy the existing SHM & McKennas). Cassin Bros bought one and ditto, told "Mr ex-C&I" what they needed to keep the unscrupulous imitators from filling-up some slick fifths with "cheap compound", and slapping labels on them similar to their own. Wilmereding and Cassin each took their newly acquired moulds (they owned them) down to SF & PGW and ordered a certain amount of embossed bottles blown (and they did it several times, judging by the color variations). Wilmerding was selling the snot out of McKenna's, everywhere.... Nevada Comstock,Cal logging coast, Nevada everywhere,SF Bay Area, Southern Cal, even Hawaii. He must've thought he could sell alot more if he had two moulds goin at the glass factory (hell, SF PGW may've even told him his mould was gonna wear-out from so many production runs !). Those later McKenna's are pretty wealky embossed, arent they... Cassin Bros were always a little special with their bottle moulds, werent they? Cello-shaped bitters bottle with a number 7 apostrophe... and English-type round-bottom soda bottle. Cassin Bros strike me as just the type that would shop around for a mould maker or go outside of the box to get what they needed for a totally embossed to death whiskey fifth....
I have seen those ads before, Warren. "Beautifully figured and painted bottles"? "Glass labeled bottles"? Indicators of what, exactly. Were the bottle painted? Were the rear labels glassed over? Probably not, but the ads are intriguing.
ReplyDeleteYou just have to wonder where in the heck are all these 1000's of bottles are, these and every other brand out there from the old days. Some of these bottles have less than 10 known? Is there a Giant outhouse pit of them, were they all recycled, are they in they the Anonymous guy's garage? I heard that in some of the old Nevada towns they were finding Boca Bob beers with whiskey labels on them? There must be a giant dump somewhere in the Bay Area holding the hoard. I think I am starting to amp out for Auburn. I am the botlmole Please stop by and put a face to your email handle both on the blogs and Ebay. Upper building middle row next to Richard S. ohhh and bring $$ Do Your Part to keep the Old Mole off the Streets. Dr.Barnes.......A Shamless Plug
ReplyDeleteNice find Warren. These ads are the same as the one that was reprinted in an old bottle club newsletter from years past. We didn't have a date to go with the ad until now. Older than I had expected. Very cool!
ReplyDeleteTwo of these bottles were found in Eastern Calif. a number of years ago by a So. Cal digger. One had the remains of the label, but I think it was to far gone to enjoy the "lovely designs". soleagent
This ad is NOT for the embossed bottles !
ReplyDeleteThese were label-only bottles shipped full directly from Ky.
Cassin had a problem with "imitators" selling Golden Plantation Whiskey. There is another ad (unfortunately of too poor quality to scan clearly). I'll transcribe it below for everyone to read.
ersThe ad appears in the June 1874 Wine Dealers Gazette(transcribed here below in verbatim):
$100 "It having come to our knowledge that certain unscrupulous parties have filled or glass labeled bottles with a cheap compound whiskey that represents to be our "O.K.GOLDEN PLANTATION WHISKY, We offer the above reward for information that will lead to the conviction of all such parties; at the same time,cautioning the public against the imposition. All of our bottles have our label, F & PJ Cassin, across the mouth, without which none are genuine."
In my opinion the above demonstated a problem with the "beautiful glass labeled bottles that were beautifully figured and painted". This is what prompted Cassin to THEN order the heavily embossed bottles.
Seems like they suffered a case of "what goes around comes around". In Burke vs Cassin 1867, F & PJ were sued in court for trying to imitate Udolpho Wolfes Schnapps. Cassin started selling labeled bottles of "Von Wolfes" Schnapps with bottles and labels similar to Wolfe's.This shortly caught the attention of the Udolpho Wolfe Co. Cassin lost the court case and were ordered to cease immediately selling the imitation product that was too similar in name and label design.
MAny whiskies started out as label-only bottles. Kind of a trial run, or sometimes while waiting for embossed bottles,if you will.
I have personally dug broken or whole, Cassin's Golden Plantation 1/5's on over 20 different occasions at 20 different properties. I can tell you, that in every instance, the layer was early 1880's. There is also a mine site in south eastern California where a digger dug a cellar hole with 3 intact Cassins and over 25 broken. This mine wasnt even dug yet in 1874.
The three C & I moulds (Cassin, S.H.M.and McKennas) seemed to have made their way to San Francisco about 1879 or 80,a yr or two after C&I ceased business in 1878 in Pitts, PA.
Clarification on the C&I moulds....... It is my opinion that these three moulds were originally "blanks" ( "slicks" in bottle collector jargon)upon arrival to S.F. in 1878 or 79 . Wilmerding bought two of the blank moulds, and Cassin bought the other. Perhaps an ex- C& I glassblower who had relocated to S.F. looking for work, shopped these blank moulds around at a discounted rate in the whiskey wholesaler district (he could've showed them to almost every liquor company in SF by walking only about a 5 block area). He then cut the embossing in, per design of Wilmerding (all he had to do on those was copy the existing SHM & McKennas). Cassin Bros bought one and ditto, told "Mr ex-C&I" what they needed to keep the unscrupulous imitators from filling-up some slick fifths with "cheap compound", and slapping labels on them similar to their own. Wilmereding and Cassin each took their newly acquired moulds (they owned them) down to SF & PGW and ordered a certain amount of embossed bottles blown (and they did it several times, judging by the color variations).
ReplyDeleteWilmerding was selling the snot out of McKenna's, everywhere.... Nevada Comstock,Cal logging coast, Nevada everywhere,SF Bay Area, Southern Cal, even Hawaii. He must've thought he could sell alot more if he had two moulds goin at the glass factory (hell, SF PGW may've even told him his mould was gonna wear-out from so many production runs !). Those later McKenna's are pretty wealky embossed, arent they...
Cassin Bros were always a little special with their bottle moulds, werent they? Cello-shaped bitters bottle with a number 7 apostrophe... and English-type round-bottom soda bottle. Cassin Bros strike me as just the type that would shop around for a mould maker or go outside of the box to get what they needed for a totally embossed to death whiskey fifth....
AP